Feature Request -Extra Hihat openness levels for "Pot" Ctrl

[anttipi]

The suppression algorithm after chick/splash uses the same DynTime/DynLevel settings from a HiHat input and depends on the velocity of a produced chick/splash note. I can increase level of suppression from a chick/splash but you can try to increase DynTime/DynLevel first.

Hmm, just to make sure: are you talking about a) chick double/false triggering suppression or b) suppression of hihat edge/bow being triggered at the same with chick, i.e. when the moving hihat lands at bottom position and the pad necessarily vibrates?

To clarify, I was talking about option b. So assuming we're talking about the same thing, I just tried a quick test and even raising DynTime/DynLevel to max seemed to make little difference (in fact I'm not sure I saw any) to edge/bow being triggered along with chick. Raising hihat Bow threshold does eliminate it but also makes edge playability less than optimal as pad sensitivity gets too low.

Right now it feels too much of a compromise having to raise Bow relatively high (but only "just enough") and at the same time trying to avoid too forceful pedal presses so that edge/bow doesn't trigger with chick.

Anyway, I have DynTime and DynLevel both at zero on the hihat. Raising Retrigger from 1 to 2 (on the Edge or both Edge and Bow) is all that's needed to get rid of most false triggering. So that suppression algorithm is already plenty strong and from what I understood, chick doesn't have it's own suppression algorithm.

[dmitri]

It is HiHat piezo false triggering suppression after chick/splash. Please post a screenshot of MIDI Log showing bow triggering after chick.

[anttipi]

It is HiHat piezo false triggering suppression after chick/splash. Please post a screenshot of MIDI Log showing bow triggering after chick.

From what I can tell from the MIDI log, an algorithm would do the trick which:
After a chick, suppresses additional hihat pad triggering
a) for up to ~40-50 ms following the chick
b) but only if the unwanted hit has a MIDI velocity below say ~10 (to minimize the chance of real hihat edge/bow hits from being suppressed)

Maybe both of the thresholds a) and b) could even be user-tweakable to some degree (perhaps various cymbal pads behave a little differently?)

Here's a screenshot including the MIDI log. As you can see, the edge is also triggering, not just bow. The edge is actually triggering more often.

[dmitri]

Can you please do the same again with DynTime/DynLevels set to the maximums for both zones?

[tobykea]

Dmitri, the new firmware works great with regards to the new hihat levels and note settings.
The only problem I'm having is that I can't seem to get Megadtum to trigger a "Splash". Chicks are fine, even soft chicks but no hihat splashes.
Any ideas on how to get this working when in "pot" mode for the hihat pedal?

I'm following this thread about the false triggering of hihat bow notes when doing a chick or a splash.
I solved this by getting rid of the traditional hihat stand and having the hihat pad itself separate from the hihat pedal arrangement.
The two entities are mutually exclusive. Stomping on a hihat pedal and stand arrangement is always going to create vibration that will cause the actual hihat pad piezo to produce a signal.
You could try and address it in software but I reckon it's an uphill battle. Easier to just physically separate the two things in my view..
Thanks for the great work on the firmware.
Cheers,
Toby.

[anttipi]

Sollved this by getting rid of the traditional hihat stand and having the hihat pad itself separate from the hihat pedal arrangement.
The two entities are mutually exclusive. Stomping on a hihat pedal and stand arrangement is always going to create vibration that will cause the actual hihat pad piezo to produce a signal.
You could try and address it in software but I reckon it's an uphill battle. Easier to just physically separate the two things in my view..

I think the algorithm I proposed would be quite effective in solving this issue without sacrificing hihat pad playability too much. Then again I'm no coder so I have little idea how easily it could be incorporated into the MD firmware.

I have a hall sensor attachment below the pedal of the hihat stand and an accompanying magnet taped to the bottom side of the pedal. I don't have room for an extra stand for a stationary hat, so one thing I could try is to simply let the hihat pad rest stationary in the stand without screwing it onto the vertically moving rod (so that the hihat rod would be freely passing "through" the pad). But then I would need to build some sort of stopper between the pedal and the floor to stop the pedal movement before it touches the hall sensor...

[anttipi]

Well, I got too frustrated with the compromises of a moving hihat and chick-related false triggering so I just went ahead and converted to a stationary hihat the way I described in my post above.

I used a tennis ball cut in half and some additional stuffing and shoved the contraption between the floor and hihat pedal. I may have to use some harder material as the contact point is too squishy and inaccurate now (but at least it's silent).

Apologies Dmitri, I pomised you a screenshot with DynTime/DynLevel at max but like I wrote before, I had already tested it and those settings did not prevent the false triggering. To me it seemed they helped very little if at all (and even that might very well have been placebo).

So basically we just have to accept the fact that it's the nature of the beast, much like tobykea pointed out. You have to choose between optimal triggering behavior vs. the realism of a moving hihat. That said, the rubber pads don't feel like a real cymbal anyway so it's "realism" in quotes we're talking about anyway.

[dmitri]

Any ideas on how to get this working when in "pot" mode for the hihat pedal?

Splash will work only if you adjust Chick Delay to a non-zero value. The only way for MegaDrum to not produce a chick before a splash is to wait some time after a chick to see if the pedal was moved quickly into the open position.