Can I use triggers to switch MIDI channels?

[mbira]

Hi Dmitri and others. I'm using a 32 input Megadrum with several piezo triggers to control ableton. Right now, I have the first 10 inputs all sending on channel 10 (Notes C1-A1). I'm wondering if it is possible to have something like the last 10 inputs used so that when you hit one, it will change the first inputs to send to a different MIDI channel?

Basically, I'm trying to figure out a way to switch banks on the fly so that the same 10 triggers can be used to send different MIDI notes (or the same notes from a different channel).

Looking at teh documentation, I guess I am wanting to switch to different drum maps by triggering?

Any ideas?
Thanks!

[dmitri]

Look at the Special setting in http://www.megadrum.info/content/pads-settings . Your MIDI program must understand MIDI Program Change messages and be configurable to act as you need.

[mbira]

Hi Dmitri and others. Thanks for answering my question earlier. I'm reposting here as a followup, because I'm looking closer at my setup and trying to see if what I am wanting to do is possible. Please forgive the long post, as there are several details.

I lead a band, and we use a 32 channel megadrum module to trigger clips to play in ableton.

I currently have 7 piezo triggers set up to send through the Megadrum, and they trigger 7 different MIDI notes in ableton.

The way Ableton maps these, is that it just reads the channel number and note number of each trigger and is listening for those.

So I have the seven triggers set up to send all channel 10 and notes C1-A1.

I'm then using the midi feedback feature in Ableton to send a different midi note when those clips are triggered and that note goes into an Arduino microcontroller that controls a LED on the trigger. THis gives me a visual cue that the trigger has indeed been activated.

This is all working great.

The problem is that this works great for one song. For a live show, I need to reopen a new ableton project for every song.

So the next step is to put ALL the songs into one big ableton project, and for each song, I need to have either the note numbers out of those 7 triggers be different (changing Drummaps?) or I need to have the channel be different (changing scenes?)

So basically, what I need to do is figure out a way to quickly make it so those seven triggers will be sending to different channels in Ableton.

So yeah-in short-I'm wondering-is there a way for Megadrum to receive information (maybe via MIDI IN?) so that the triggers are sending to a different channel? Maybe I could go MIDI out of ableton into the Megadrum to change those channels?

[dmitri]

So yeah-in short-I'm wondering-is there a way for Megadrum to receive information (maybe via MIDI IN?) so that the triggers are sending to a different channel? Maybe I could go MIDI out of ableton into the Megadrum to change those channels?

No, you cannot do this. I can only repeat the suggestion from my previous post or use drum maps switching in MegaDrum but you of course know that number of drum maps is limited.

[mbira]

Hi Dmitri,
Thanks so much for your reply.

I can only repeat the suggestion from my previous post

I read over that info. I'm afraid I don't understand it very well:

Special function. Sets a special function of the input. On Head/Bow inputs this option has no effect. On switch type Rim/Edge inputs this option activates Program Change support. To activate the Program Change support:
1. Configure the input either as a dual piezo/switch pad or as a Yamaha style 3 zone cymbal.
2. On a Rim/Edge input set Special to Yes.
3. Set ANote to a number which will limit the Program Change lowest number.
4. Set PNote to a number which will limit the Program Change highest number.
Pressing the edge switch will send MIDI Program Change messages on each press in the upwards direction between ANote and PNote values. Pressing the bell switch (if the edge and bell switches are wired as in a Yamaha style 3 zone cymbal and configured accordingly) will send MIDI Program Change messages on each press in the downwards direction between ANote and PNote values. Of course, it doesn't have to be a real Yamaha type 3 zone pad/cymbal, it just needs switches connected to the rim/edge input as in a Yamaha type 3 zone cymbal, i.e. one switch connected directly and the second switch connected over a 10k resistor. It will work with only one switch as well but it will only cycle in upwards direction going to a ANote value again after reaching PNote value. Sent kit (PC number + 1) is shown on the LCD when Program Change message is sent.

I don't really see how this would apply to what I am trying to accomplish? The mapping in Ableton just picks up whatever channel/note is being received and applies the info to the selected slave.

It's not asking to listen to a specific channel first (Like in cubase, etc). So I think the channel change would need to happen in Megadrum...

On another note, I haven't seen the documentation anywhere-what exactly does the MIDI input to the megadrum do? What can I control on the megadrum with it?

[mbira]

You know what would be great? A way to use the MIDI input to adjust the "Set All Chnnls".

Or even better-a way to assign one of the pads to be an activator for the "Set All Chnnls". You could hit that pad, and then the numbered pad you hit after that (1-16) would change the global channel send. Hit that activator pad again to save the change.

Imagine the possibilities-you could then essentially bypass the limitations of the Atmega and have tremendous sound potential.

[dmitri]

Hi Dmitri,
Thanks so much for your reply.

I can only repeat the suggestion from my previous post

I read over that info. I'm afraid I don't understand it very well:

Special function. Sets a special function of the input. On Head/Bow inputs this option has no effect. On switch type Rim/Edge inputs this option activates Program Change support. To activate the Program Change support:
1. Configure the input either as a dual piezo/switch pad or as a Yamaha style 3 zone cymbal.
2. On a Rim/Edge input set Special to Yes.
3. Set ANote to a number which will limit the Program Change lowest number.
4. Set PNote to a number which will limit the Program Change highest number.
Pressing the edge switch will send MIDI Program Change messages on each press in the upwards direction between ANote and PNote values. Pressing the bell switch (if the edge and bell switches are wired as in a Yamaha style 3 zone cymbal and configured accordingly) will send MIDI Program Change messages on each press in the downwards direction between ANote and PNote values. Of course, it doesn't have to be a real Yamaha type 3 zone pad/cymbal, it just needs switches connected to the rim/edge input as in a Yamaha type 3 zone cymbal, i.e. one switch connected directly and the second switch connected over a 10k resistor. It will work with only one switch as well but it will only cycle in upwards direction going to a ANote value again after reaching PNote value. Sent kit (PC number + 1) is shown on the LCD when Program Change message is sent.

I don't really see how this would apply to what I am trying to accomplish? The mapping in Ableton just picks up whatever channel/note is being received and applies the info to the selected slave.

It's not asking to listen to a specific channel first (Like in cubase, etc). So I think the channel change would need to happen in Megadrum...

You need to research on Internet what MIDI Program Change messages are used for.

On another note, I haven't seen the documentation anywhere-what exactly does the MIDI input to the megadrum do? What can I control on the megadrum with it?

http://www.megadrum.info/content/megadr ... nd-formats
http://www.megadrum.info/content/megadrum-manager

[mbira]

You need to research on Internet what MIDI Program Change messages are used for.

Yeah, I've been reading up on it for the last few days. What confuses me is what I'm understanding is that program changes affect the thing that is sending the midi information so that it will send different information...but in this case I am wanting to change what Megadrum is sending, so those program changes wouldn't do that?

Maybe I am completely misunderstanding?

http://www.megadrum.info/content/megadr ... nd-formats
http://www.megadrum.info/content/megadrum-manager

OK. I was aware of the sysex stuff, but I thought maybe I was missing some midi in aspects (I was wondering in megadrum could be controlled with midi in). Thanks again for your help, and I love the megadrum. It has been very flexible for my needs so far.

[dmitri]

You need to research on Internet what MIDI Program Change messages are used for.

Yeah, I've been reading up on it for the last few days. What confuses me is what I'm understanding is that program changes affect the thing that is sending the midi information so that it will send different information...but in this case I am wanting to change what Megadrum is sending, so those program changes wouldn't do that?

Maybe I am completely misunderstanding?

MIDI PC messages are like instructions and recipients of these messages may elect (or be configured) to action on recieving them. E.g. I configured my MegaDrum to send PC messages to switch to different drum kits in my Boss DR-3 drum machine. In this case MegaDrum doesn't change notes or channels when it sends a PC message but because the drum machine recognised a PC message it accordingly switches to another drum kit thus changing sounds - i.e. changing it's response to the same notes and channels.

[mbira]

OK. Thanks for the thorough explanation. I understand what you mean. Unfortunately, I don't think I can use program changes there in Ableton as the scene clips can only be assigned a MIDI note (or CC message). I don't see anywhere where I can use program changes on the Scenes.

It looks like as things stand now, between songs, one of the guys in the band will have to got to the megadrum and manually scroll through the menu in order to do a global channel change.

I wonder if I can create an aggregate MIDI device on the Mac (like you can with the Audio drivers). Maybe I can merge the Behringer and Megadrum and then somehow use Midipipe to filter the messages based on the footcontrol messages received...