Roland CY-14c Xtalk: Hits to edge triggers bow peizo

[mdefiore]

1. MinScan on the bow and the edge should be set equal.

Done. Both set to 40.

2. If Alt or Pressroll are not used they must be set equal Note.

Done.

3. Light hits on the edge are very likely not to 'make' the edge switch and therefore will be registered as bow hits.

Understood.

With the above settings I still get the false triggering.

4. The Threshold on the bow seems to be set to low, i.e. too sensitive and as a result "after hit" vibration with too low Threshold on the bow will likely cause false bow triggering.

Yes, this is exactly the problem. If I set threshold above 10, the false triggering begins to go away but the bow becomes much less sensitivity when compared to using it with the TD-30 (TD-30 does not have any false triggering issues between bow and edge even through bow is very sensitive).

I am trying to make the CY-14c on the MD behave the same way it does on the TD-30.

TD-30 sensitivity:
Bouncing a stick on CY-14c using the TD-30 registers all hits except, perhaps, one or two at the end. The bow is very, very sensitive and does not false trigger with edge hits.

MD Sensitivity:
To completely eliminate false triggering on the MD, bow threshold needs to be set at about 20-25. With this level of threshold, bouncing a stick on the MD will only register the first 2-3 hits, all the rest are too low for the MD to pick up. the bow is very insensitive when compared to the TD-30.

Any ideas?

[dmitri]

Can you try with the HighLevel on the edge set to about 2 times lower then on the bow, i.e. around 300?

[dmitri]

Also, can you please make two videos showing difference between Roland and MegaDrum in bow sensitivity and false bow triggering when hitting the edge? It's for my understanding of degree of difference. I will probably need to make some changes to firmware and will need you to test several firmware versions.

[mdefiore]

Also, can you please make two videos showing difference between Roland and MegaDrum in bow sensitivity and false bow triggering when hitting the edge? It's for my understanding of degree of difference. I will probably need to make some changes to firmware and will need you to test several firmware versions.

Ok...going to need a few days to make that happen. How do I post them?

[dmitri]

You can upload them on Youtube.

[mdefiore]

You can upload them on Youtube.

Ok.

I'll use the default out-of-the-box settings on the TD-30 settings for the comparison, but what settings do you want me to use for the MD? Angr77s?

[dmitri]

Use the settings from viewtopic.php?p=26721#p26721 with the corrected MinScan and Pressroll Note.

[mdefiore]

Use the settings from viewtopic.php?p=26721#p26721 with the corrected MinScan and Pressroll Note.

Ok. With a bow threshold of 7, the MDs sensitivity is about the same as the TD-30, but the MD exhibits the false triggering issue, while the TD-30 does not.

[talrusher]

your first half-wave ist negative... i believe that md has Problems in combination with falsetrigger supression and negative first half wave. have changed the polarity on the piezo in my hihat and from than on i have better results in supression.

try it, maybe it works for you as nice as for me

regards

[mdefiore]

Hi All,

I've had a Megadrum working now for about a couple of months: all Roland pads and cymbals. I'm moving from a TD-30 which I've been playing for several months. So, I'm used to the sensitivity and performance of the TD-30.

Roland pads with the Megadrum work as well as the TD-30—sensitivity, positional sensing, everything....perfect.

Roland cymbals.....not so much. Despite following Dmitris suggestions on configuring my CY-14c, and using CY-15r settings from angrs website, and doing my own config on the CY12-r/c, the performance of Roland cymbal pads with the Megadrum can't touch the performance of these pads have with the TD-30—not even close. I've done direct comparisons for each cymbal and the problem is alway the same. To get TD-30 level sensitivity with the Megadrum, cymbal Bow Threshold must be set low—and a threshold that low allows false triggering when hitting the cymbal edge.

An important observation is that only cymbal edge hits can trigger cymbal bow notes—not the other way around: a cymbal bow hit never triggers a cymbal edge notes. This makes sense, since switch triggers are used on the cymbal edge sensors—and edge sensors are harder to trigger than the peizos sensors on the cymbal bow. This leads me to my proposal—an easy fix, I think—that I believe will make it much, much easier to get TD-30 level performance with the Megadrum and Roland cymbals:

When Megadrum registers an edge hit, ignore bow hits for time interval X, where X time interval is a setting configurable by the user.

Such a setting would allow a very low threshold on the bow, and, at the same time, allow for accurate edge triggering. I believe this is what the TD-30 does, since the cymbals bow sensitivity is simply amazing when used with a TD-30—almost as good as a real cymbal—and I can't imagine how else they could get that level of sensitivity.

I'd really appreciate this being added to a Megadrum firmware—I believe it would really improve the Megadrum's performance with many cymbals.

Thanks,
Mike