Hi hat missing beats on certain patterns

[DonGui]

Hi all,

I've been getting a weird behaviour from my hi hat just recently... When I play a groove which involves at the same time :
- Closing the hi hat by foot as it was previously open
- hitting the hi hat bow with the drum stick
- hitting the kick

... then very often it leads to the hi hat skipping this beat (being silent) as well as the next beats for 1 or 2 seconds. The three events described have to be perfectly synchronous for it to happen.
The issue seems to be in the midi megadrum is sending : when it happens, I see in the midi log that md is actually sending notes for every hihat strike, but the note numbers are 0 and they are shown as 3rd zone hits (and not triggering anything in AD2).
And weirdly enough, I hadn't changed my settings before I first ran into this problem.

For the hihat, I use the cc control in AD2, so my MD config only has notes active for bow closed and edge closed. My hi hat pads' related settings in md are "dual or 3 way yamaha" for the bow and "switch" for the edge, is that correct configuration ? (it's always been set that way). I tried playing with the chick delay (taking it from 1 to 15) but it didn't prevent the problem from happening. My MD's firmware was still 20141203 when i ran into this, but upgrading to 20150111 only seemed to make the problem less frequent without completely solving it.

Any idea about something I could try out to solve the issue ?

Guillaume

[dmitri]

Note 0 cannot come from nowhere. Please post screenshots of HiHat pedal notes settings and of the HiHat cymbal settings.

[DonGui]

Hi Dmitri,

Thanks for your help, here are the screenshots :

[DonGui]

follow up...

[dmitri]

If you're using CC messages for HiHat positions than all Pedal Notes must be set to the same Notes as HiHat cymbal Notes, i.e. in your case to Bow* Notes must be 42 and all Edge* Notes must be 26.

[DonGui]

Hi Dmitri,

I've tried setting all edge/bow notes in the pedal notes page as you advised, but after that about 90% of hits on the hihat (bow or edge) triggered only note 0 3rd zone messages according to the midi log. I tried to set things back the way it was before, but it didn't change a thing, it didn't get back to the previous behaviour. I haven't changed anything in the Hihat bow/edge pad settings.
What's more, now I also get between 4 and 8 choke on / choke off messages after each strike on the hihat (right after the note 0 3rd zone message).
I tried power-cycling md, it didn't change.

Also, on another topic, I upgraded java just now, and now mdm freezes every time I try to switch the pad settings shown to another pad (winodws 8.1).

Thanks for your help,
Guillaume

[ignotus]

I reckon your cymbal is the problem - the edge switch isn't working properly and sometimes remains closed (hence the 3rd zone dampened note = 0) or intermittently makes contact, causing all the choke on/off messages. Use a multimeter to check the edge switch.

[dmitri]

Hi Dmitri,

I've tried setting all edge/bow notes in the pedal notes page as you advised, but after that about 90% of hits on the hihat (bow or edge) triggered only note 0 3rd zone messages according to the midi log. I tried to set things back the way it was before, but it didn't change a thing, it didn't get back to the previous behaviour. I haven't changed anything in the Hihat bow/edge pad settings.

Set all 3rd zone Notes equal to the Edge Notes, i.e. to 26 in your case.

What's more, now I also get between 4 and 8 choke on / choke off messages after each strike on the hihat (right after the note 0 3rd zone message).
I tried power-cycling md, it didn't change.

It may indicate that Threshold is set too high for Gain 0. You'd better raise Gain on the Edge to 4 or higher. On switch inputs, the higher Gain the better switch make/break detection. You will also have to raise and adjust Threshold on the Edge after that.

I reckon your cymbal is the problem - the edge switch isn't working properly and sometimes remains closed (hence the 3rd zone dampened note = 0) or intermittently makes contact, causing all the choke on/off messages. Use a multimeter to check the edge switch.

This also might be the case.

[DonGui]

Hi guys,

It may indicate that Threshold is set too high for Gain 0. You'd better raise Gain on the Edge to 4 or higher. On switch inputs, the higher Gain the better switch make/break detection. You will also have to raise and adjust Threshold on the Edge after that. .

I did so, and tried adjusting the threshold afterward, but either I only got 3rd zone messages (at that point 3rd zones was still at note 0), or I only got edge messages, with no way to trigger bow notes.

Set all 3rd zone Notes equal to the Edge Notes, i.e. to 26 in your case.

After doing so, I had sound with every stroke, no missing notes, but I only got note 26, and showing up as edge hits in midi log. No way to get bow notes. But I really don't get why I would ever get 3rd zone notes sent while I have a dual zone hh plugged ? What is the logic behind it ?

I reckon your cymbal is the problem - the edge switch isn't working properly and sometimes remains closed (hence the 3rd zone dampened note = 0) or intermittently makes contact, causing all the choke on/off messages. Use a multimeter to check the edge switch.

I tried testing the cymbal with a multimeter set in continuity test mode. The meter detected that the circuit was open only when i hit the edge of the hh, and I suppose that it's correct behavior ? Or where you thinking about another way to test the hh with a multimeter ?

Thanks for your help

[dmitri]

Hi guys,

It may indicate that Threshold is set too high for Gain 0. You'd better raise Gain on the Edge to 4 or higher. On switch inputs, the higher Gain the better switch make/break detection. You will also have to raise and adjust Threshold on the Edge after that. .

I did so, and tried adjusting the threshold afterward, but either I only got 3rd zone messages (at that point 3rd zones was still at note 0), or I only got edge messages, with no way to trigger bow notes.

Ho did you adjust Threshold? Do you get AfterTouch On and Off messages when you press and release the edge switch?

Set all 3rd zone Notes equal to the Edge Notes, i.e. to 26 in your case.

After doing so, I had sound with every stroke, no missing notes, but I only got note 26, and showing up as edge hits in midi log. No way to get bow notes. But I really don't get why I would ever get 3rd zone notes sent while I have a dual zone hh plugged ? What is the logic behind it ?

It means that the Threshold is set too high and MegaDrum thinks that the edge switch is always pressed. Lower Edge Threshold one notch at a time until you get reliably only bow notes when you hit the bow.
Or it means that either the cymbal or the cable is broken and there is a short on the edge input between the sleeve and the ring.

I reckon your cymbal is the problem - the edge switch isn't working properly and sometimes remains closed (hence the 3rd zone dampened note = 0) or intermittently makes contact, causing all the choke on/off messages. Use a multimeter to check the edge switch.

I tried testing the cymbal with a multimeter set in continuity test mode. The meter detected that the circuit was open only when i hit the edge of the hh, and I suppose that it's correct behavior ? Or where you thinking about another way to test the hh with a multimeter ?

When the edge switch is not pressed, there should be infinite resistance between the sleeve and the ring. When the edge switch is pressed, there should be close to zero Ohm resistance between the sleeve and the ring if it is a dual piezo/switch cymbal or close around 10 kOhm if it is a 3way Yamaha style cymbal.