VH11 with Superior Drummer 2.4 Setup & fine tuning questions

[Narbicus]

Hi, Had my Atmega1284 for almost a year now and trying to fine tune it. Been drumming 2 years and am starting to get better with the hi hat which i'm having trouble correctly setting up. It works well for opening and closing and the states in between but am having trouble getting chokes and foot splashes to work.

I followed the guide on the wiki - http://www.megadrum.info/wiki/index.php ... orDrummer2 and have been referring to info in this thread concerning the new algorithm viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2495&hilit=vh11&start=30 . I've uploaded a screen shot of what i have everything set to currently.

1. If i'm using CC4 in SD2, which 'Levels' under 'HiHat Pedal' need setting ?
Is it just 'Open' and 'Closed' which need to be set? I ask this as i tried last night to callibrate the chick velocities but was getting no raw value on the screen so couldn't proceed. I also noticed 'Quick Access' wasn't working. I assumed that they and the other settings 'SemiOpen' 'Halfopen' and 'ChickThresh' 'ShortChickThresh' 'LongChickThresh' wouldn't need to be set as they are calculated by CC4 by the software.
2. Do i need to adjust 'Chick Delay' and enable 'Soft Chicks' ?
I've read the info in the documentation but i'm still unsure if these are relevant to my setup.
3. Does a 'HighLevel' of 900-1000 mean the cymbal is too hot?
Many people seem to have the VH11 but i have not seen anyone else cool it down, just a resistor on the sepaqrate optical controller part. I also have quite a severe hotspot dead in the middle which makes it a bit inconsistent. A few cm either side of this spot reaches around 700 'Highlevel'.

Sorry to ask these questions, they have been asked before many times but i've become stuck and am still struggling to get my head round all these settings!

[dmitri]

1. If i'm using CC4 in SD2, which 'Levels' under 'HiHat Pedal' need setting ? Is it just 'Open' and 'Closed' which need to be set? I ask this as i tried last night to callibrate the chick velocities but was getting no raw value on the screen so couldn't proceed. I also noticed 'Quick Access' wasn't working. I assumed that they and the other settings 'SemiOpen' 'Halfopen' and 'ChickThresh' 'ShortChickThresh' 'LongChickThresh' wouldn't need to be set as they are calculated by CC4 by the software.

If you use CC4 in SD2 for HiHat pedal then you have to set all SemiOpen,HalfOpen,SemiClosed,Closed Notes equal to Notes of the HiHat cymbal. Also you set Chick and Splash Notes to any Note which is ignored by SD2, e.g. 0, since Chicks and Splashes will be generated by SD2 itself caculated from CC4 received from MegaDrum.

2. Do i need to adjust 'Chick Delay' and enable 'Soft Chicks' ? I've read the info in the documentation but i'm still unsure if these are relevant to my setup.

If you use CC4 then you don't need to worry about any other Chick/Splash settings in MegaDrum.

3. Does a 'HighLevel' of 900-1000 mean the cymbal is too hot? Many people seem to have the VH11 but i have not seen anyone else cool it down, just a resistor on the sepaqrate optical controller part. I also have quite a severe hotspot dead in the middle which makes it a bit inconsistent. A few cm either side of this spot reaches around 700 'Highlevel'.

Is it with Gain 0? in this case 700 is fine. 900-1000 probably means it might be too hot.
MegaDrum cannot know if you hit a hot spot or you just hit very hard so I can only suggest to position the cymbal so that to minimize the chance of hitting the hot spot or put some dampening material on the area.

[Narbicus]

Thanks for the reply. I took the vh11 apart and found the piezo is mounted on the underside so might try some foam inside to dampen it or experiment with resistor/pot to cool it at a later date. For the time being i'll do what you suggested and just stick some foam where the spot is or just teach myself to avoid it.

Here is another screenshot of my current settings.

Hi hat 25.07.2015.jpg

For the module, I set 'Chick min,max,dead' and Chick and Splash notes to 0. Also double checked my SD2 settings were correct (hatsCtrl - CC4, TipTrig 19, Trig 18).

Also changed 'cc reduction lvl' to 1 to slightly smoothen it and the 'chick curve' to linear (Assuming this has no effect anyway?). Also i re-did my high and low levels after realising i had put the vh11 clutch together wrongly making it close incorrectly.

Its working perfectly for the in between states and tight articulations but foot chicks and splashes still don't seem to work.

Is the only way to tweak this in the software done by adjusting the 'cc ctrl' curve? Would adjusting the 'foot pedal curve' on MD affect this too making 2 different ways to tweak?

For example - setting SD2 on linear curve and MD on a custom curve or vice versa, setting MD on linear and SD2 on a custom curve. Obviously the settings kind of overlap each other, would you recommend one method over the other?

[dmitri]

This depends and SD2 configuration, which I cannot advise on myself, so I hope someone with more SD2 knowledge will be able to help you.

[Narbicus]

I recently reread the manual and realised that Hi-Hat chick and splashes will not work unless the 'Closed pedal articulation' is set and that 'The Closed Pedal value must match the note sent by your module when you play a “foot chick”.

It seems Superior Drummer does not generate hi hat chicks and splashes with CC4 data alone.

How do i get Megadrum to output a foot chick note? There is no note generated by megadrum when pushing the foot pedal from an open position to closed with my current settings using CC4.

I have sucessfully set the midi notes for 'HatsTrig' 18 'HatsTrig' 19 'HatsCtrl' CC4.

From the Superior drummer 2 manual -

7.2 Hi-hat Mapping

If your module MIDI mapping does not match the default Hats mapping, you will need to configure it as per the
procedure outlined below. The only difference compared to assigning a different type of trigger, as described
in the previous section, is that there are several Articulations that must be set properly for the set up to be
complete and appropriate: Closed Pedal, HatsTrig (plus optionally HatsTipTrig) and finally HatsCtrl.

The Closed Pedal value must match the note sent by your module when you play a “foot chick”.
The HatsTrig values must match the notes (and ALL the notes) sent by your module when you hit your hi-hat pad.
The HatsCtrl value must match the MIDI Continuous Controller type that your module sends when your hi-hat
controller position changes (CC04 and CC01 are assigned by default which should be adequate for most users).

In addition, if your trigger pad is capable of sending distinct note events to diffrentiate your playing on the
edge and bow of the trigger (dual zone pad with appropriate module and cabling), you may also wish to split
the notes sent by the module when you hit to pad to reflect accurately the zone it is being played on.

You will need to assign ALL the notes that your module is sending, not just one. This is imperative to handle
the hi-hats properly. The best way to ensure all notes are registered correctly is to record a short MIDI sequence
and check in your sequencer what notes are transmitted and type them in manually.

If you wish to perform the calibration using the ‘Learn’ function, please proceed as follows:

Associating the Closed Pedal Articulation:
1. Select the ‘Hats’ from the Instrument section in the bottom right corner then the ‘Closed Pedal’ Articulation
2. Engage the ‘Learn’ button
3. Generate a “foot chick” (move your foot controller from the up position to the floor)

Associating the HatsTrig Articulation:
1. Select the ‘Hats’ from the Instrument section in the bottom right corner then the ‘HatsTrig’ Articulation
2. Engage the ‘Learn’ button
3. Hit your pad on the edge
Repeat for each controller position in which the module sends a different note as you hit the pad.

Associating the HatsTipTrig Articulation:
1. Select ‘Hats’ from the Instrument section in the bottom right corner then the ‘Hats
Tip
Trig’ Articulation
2. Engage the ‘Learn’ button
3. Hit your pad with the tip of your drumstick in the bow area of your pad
Repeat for each controller position in which the module sends a different note as you hit the pad.

Once again if your module sends several notes, when you hit the pad on the same spot depending on the
position of your hi-hat controller, you MUST assign all of these notes.

Verify the assignment for the HatsCtrl Articulation:

You should check the MIDI implementation chart that should be available from the manufaturer of your E-drum
module, typically located at the back of the operation manual to ensure Controller data is transmitted as CC04
or CC01. If this is not the case then you will be required to type the controller type manually.
1. Select the ‘Hats’ from the Instrument section in the bottom right corner then the ‘HatsCtrl’ Articulation
2. Click inside the ‘Key’ field underneath the Articulation menu
3. Type the controller type as ‘CCxx’ where xx is the controller type appropriate for your module

[Kabonfaiba]

This thread interests me.

I've got my VH-11 performing pretty good in SD2, but always interested to see if improvements can be made.

First, here are the settings I use:

MegadrumHH_settings.png

As you can see, I'm using manual chick and splash note (although splash is disabled with chick delay 0 - I can't get the thing to work reliably anyway lol)

Sometimes I increase smoothing if the transmuting starts to stutter, but it's usually good.

I'm using the old algorithm, because the new algorithm just wasn't as dynamic (I was getting 900 min and 1000 max velocity) and all the chicks where too quiet.

ChickThresh MUST be set in the correct value for the VH-11 for any chicks to work on Megadrum, do that first. Lower threshold = stronger chicks + easier to trigger.

I do wish I could have a retrig cancel for hi-hat bow hits after a chick though, it would clean up the double triggering at least.

[Narbicus]

I have realised the reason i wasn't getting a closed pedal note is because i was using the new algorithm.

I set New Algrthm: No, Chick: 21 and in Superior set the Hats 'Closed Pedal' articulation to 21 (A-1).

Works consistently, but needs tweaking.

[Narbicus]

Hey mate, thanks for posting your settings. Interesting seeing how much they differ.

1. You seem to be getting a lower minimum level than me. I get 425-665 you get 150-660 What resistor did you use on the hi hat controller? I used a 10k. Is your hi hat input switched to hi or low? We're both using ALTIN. Also, have you used a resistor or voltage divider on your cymbal? My cymbal is very hot compared to yours when comparing gain and high level. I'm wondering if mine is broken.

2. Are you using CC4 for the 'Hatsctrl' articulation in SD2? If so, I'm not sure if some of your settings are necessary or not if you are using the old algorithm as some of them only apply with the new. For instance MinVlcty, MaxVlcty, ChckDead, ChkCrv. Please correct me if i'm wrong! i'm just going off Dmitri's response to my first post.
http://www.megadrum.info/content/hihat-pedal-settings

[Kabonfaiba]

1. My Megadrum was built by Dmitri, but I have opened it and I see there is indeed a resistor (since I requested it) soldered onto the hi hat controller input. Yes it's probably 10k.

I'm actually thinking of adding more resistors in the future actually, since I am having some electrical crosstalk issues, which resistors or trimpots might resolve, if I can fit them.

My impedance switch is in the downwards position. In my case, Switch DOWN - ALT Input ON, gives me the larger resolution.
Switch UP - ALT Input OFF, can also be used... but it only gives me about 200 of range or so.

2. Yes I am, (CC4 for hats, CC16 for snare) and I read too; in this case, that data is only to do with the new algorithm, which is defunct with the old algorithm running. No harm in keeping the placeholders mind if a new firmware improves it, I may try using the new algorithm once again.

[ignotus]

I'm actually thinking of adding more resistors in the future actually, since I am having some electrical crosstalk issues, which resistors or trimpots might resolve, if I can fit them.

I have trimpots on all inputs and still have the electrical crosstalk problem. I wouldn't add them just to try and solve this problem because it would be a wasted effort.