Roland cymbals only work in certain ports?

[Kabonfaiba]

Thought I would have a reorganize & tidy up of my Megadrum today - involved changing some jacks around.

I went to re-calibrate in MDM again after plugging all my jacks back in and noticed my 2 Roland CY-14C's were only triggering edge and nothing else. So I naturally did a Set All EdgeSw again - only a 3rd zone "Dampened Note" C -1 (disabled) was showing in the MIDI Log - both cymbals did the same (and many false notes for a single hit)

Anyway, 2 hours of grueling stress later trying to solve it; I put the CY-14C back into the port I originally set it up and volia! Bow, edge and aftertouch working again.

The Roland cymbals only seem to behave properly if I have them in inputs 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 (Snare on 4 - I didn't change that jack)

This is likely something to do with the signal rectifiers? It makes no sense to me... how could other people have made their Roland cymbals work without the positional sensing board in that case?

I have the 72Mhz ARM 32 inputs + PS Board
Firmware/MDM: 20141203
MCU: STM32F103RCT6

Now having to make new stickers all over again while kicking myself - "If it works, don't fix it" comes to mind.

[dmitri]

Roland 3way cymbals should work on all inputs (two subsequent stereo jacks). You might have a look at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1968

[Kabonfaiba]

Hey dmitri, I thought you were on holiday already lol, go enjoy your Christmas!

Yes not a critical issue by any means, but you say Roland 3way should work on all inputs?

That's worrying, since I definitely cannot make any Roland cymbal work on any other input that isn't 4/5 to 14/15. I started from fresh from a recent firmware flash, and used the guide from Anders Gronlund / ANGR77 to do most of my setup.

With my CY-14C cymbal plugged into 14/15; all default (safe) settings, Head set to Dual, Rim set to switch, Set All EdgeSw; Working... I hit the edge 3 times with increasing strength, rotate the encoder to save. I choke the cymbal immediately afterwards and get a couple aftertouch notes - all good.

Then I move the jack to input 16/17, same as before, default settings, Set All EdgeSw. I choke the cymbal and get no response (this is both through MDM and LCD) hitting the cymbals with a drumstick, no matter if I hit the bow or the edge I get note [C -1]

Weird right? I did exactly the same setup procedure for both jacks. But beyond input 14/15, the problems start.

Maybe the wires are soldered backwards I dunno lol, I've never opened the magic box.

[angr77]

Hi!
Sounds very strange!

The CY-14C is a dual trigger with a piezo/switch. (Not a three way)

Somebody else should verify this...I don't my gears at home...otherwise I could gave tested this also.

You could test this: when you have verified the working settings for inputs 14/15...you could copy the settings in MDM (there is such a function - see the pad panel) to inputs 16/17 and see if you get the same results.

Post you MDM file with the 14/15 and 16/17 populated.

Angr77

[Kabonfaiba]

I'm afraid I gave up on my cymbals in 16/17 and also 17/18.

I now have all 3 of my Roland cymbals in 6/7 to 12/13 - 2x CY-14C, 1x CY-15R they all work okay, but really different settings between the two crashes - like one is much hotter than the other.

I have attached my current WIP setup which you may look over if you wish.

I have my crosstalk settings really high atm, because I get the odd false triggering on something while I'm playing. In debug mode, I see lots of other bars dancing when I hit a pad.

Funny enough though, debug mode was absolutely useless when it came to setting up my positional sensing. I never found a moving <> carrier on the top row lol. (Not on normal or big VU) I ended up doing my calibration in BFD3 and it works perfectly.

For MDM I have been using Java 1.6.0_45 which I find the most stable. Java 1.7.0.51, and Java 8 work, but freeze / generally bug more often and give my Megadrum screen corruption. I notice a lot of things aren't saving properly; like LCD contrast, and numbers aren't right in the config but are correct in MDM i.e. says channel 9 when I selected channel 10 - not sure why.

As advised on here, I have disabled the rest of my inputs to keep them from interfering.

[airflamesred]

The indescriminate triggering is more than likely down to the threshold being quite low on some of the inputs. I noticed gain 0 in a few places. I would put that up to 4, especially as you have some quite low high levels and re calibrate the high level. You should be able to turn the crosstaslk down then.

[Kabonfaiba]

Ah I see, I thought putting any gain on - would be a bad thing to do.

I was thinking gain would just increase the noise floor, but I see running such low thresholds is also a bad thing... I'll do gain 4 for all inputs and recalibrate the thresholds and high levels and see if that's an improvement, thanks!

[angr77]

Hi!

I was checking your MDS file. Just some small things beside the 0 gain stuff.

You are using "Inputs Priority" - This means that 16 of the 22 inputs is given a better priority. You could disable this function and see if the cymbal above channel 15 works better.

You have a 32 channel board - I would suggest that you also raise the global inputs to 32. (Instead of 22) Reason for this is that you have 32 physical inputs...and the channels above 22 is not automatically set to 0. They could still interfear with your setup.

Set all unused channels note to 0 above 22.

For your Cy-15R implementation - You are using the channels 10-13. Please set channel 12 note to 0 (So it is disabled)

Another good behavior is to always set "highlevel auto" to disabled after have done the high level sequence. (No big deal...but it looks good)
Hint: If you want to initiate the high level measure process from MDM...set the High Level value to 0 and then enable highlevel auto and then press send in the PAD Panel. If you now starts hit the actual pad a couple of times hard you will see the high level value raise to it's maximum. Could be easier than if you do it on the MD.

For the hi-hat - you should maybe also set the note values for all bow and edge hits. Using 14 and 15 for Semiclosed, halfopen etc..

I have updated your file with my suggestions...one of your crashes was using positional sensing...


Best Regards

ANGR77

32 Inputs.zip

[Kabonfaiba]

Thanks angr77,

Lots of useful info for me!

I have actually opened up my Megadrum recently to see indeed all the inputs are connected to the positional sensing board lol, so hardware looks healthy.

I did the gain adjustments; my thresholds didn't raise as much as I thought, I do however have a lot of false notes now on my crashes I didn't have before, 1 hit = 1 correct + 8 false small velocity notes (obviously while the cymbal is swinging). The Dyntime 60 and DynLevel 16 and Retrigger at 127 didn't help, but if I raise velocity it starts missing hits, really difficult to find a comfortable in-between, but other CY-14C requires completely different settings! Something isn't right with it.

Anyways, going to start fresh with Angr77 new config tomorrow and try again.

You know, I swear I double check everything when I save configs, but like you spotted, some auto highlevels were still on, and PS was on in a wrong input... *damn*

I know that sometimes I'll switch from Snare to the Crash1 and although the label changes MDM still displays the settings for Snare, that's my excuse, the dropdown menus stay on the screen when I click off them; that's how I can tell its time to restart lol.

I wasn't sure what I was doing with the hihat notes.

BFD3 seems to behave fine with just the tip and shank keys bound to D 0 and D# 0

The only problem is I can't seem to make splash work through Megadrum. BFD3 is interpreting it's own splash and chick atm, so I didn't even bind the notes, but I would love to know how to make it work through Megadrum at some point.

Btw I have one more question;

I was following your guide Angr77, with my thresholds set at 80, doing single hits and reducing the Dyntime and DynLevel...

I went down to 0, on all settings, and I still wasn't getting any false triggering. What does that mean?

I am using Diamond Drums here, but I feels like I should be using "at least some" Dyntime, DynLevel and Retrigger, otherwise it feels like using 0 for these settings isn't the intended use.

[angr77]

I think Dmitri once said...if you are able to go down on 0 retrigger, 0 dyn level, 0 Dyntime without false triggering...congrats! This is the optimal config! But are you sure that you really have these settings send to the MD device?

Angr77